Curse

Shura30 · Jan 03, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

that little bit right there is why I am against (any)town warps, other than what we already have.

not to be a prick, but lol at bored and 2nd character. it sounds like you didn't even play thru fully with your first. some of us are dragging on 11+ toons.

posts like these are only spam and not so useful for the discussion

as for note my first character have full missions, quests and miss few bonuses to be complete

it's my second character that i need a boost for
i want it only to farm some areas or do particular things
why i have to run trough the full game, again?
it's a fault to want to HAVE FUN instead of repeating the same boring process every time?

Ace2001 · Jan 03, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shura30

posts like these are only spam and not so useful for the discussion

as for note my first character have full missions, quests and miss few bonuses to be complete

it's my second character that i need a boost for
i want it only to farm some areas or do particular things
why i have to run trough the full game, again?
it's a fault to want to HAVE FUN instead of repeating the same boring process every time?

Apparently so, since that's not what RPG's are about. What you're wanting, is basicaly saying this; Hey, I just beat pokemon diamond* and now I'm going to start a brand new game.** Apon starting a new game, you stare in shock and horror as the pokemon you spent MONTHS on training are no longer there in your party list, and you can't use Fly on a Pidgey to travel immediately to the elite4. But instead, you have to work your way through the game, catching new pokemon, raising them***, beating the gyms all over again, etc. etc. etc.

As for the storage, I tend to think of it like a vault, or the Mail/UPS system. Instead of Character B having to send a letter to Character A saying "Hey bro, I need that Shiro's blade you have, send it to me ASAP!" and it taking that letter 3-4 days to get there, then the reply letter/package taking another 3-4 days, it just cuts out the middle man and makes it all instantly available. (Boy, I'd love to see one of those get through the US mail system, though. I bet they'd piss their pants. XD )

* (or insert w/e game you like.)

** (which anybody whos ever played it knows that if you start a new game and save your progress, it deletes your old save.)

*** unless you were intellegent and traded off your best/most usefull pokemon to a friend, then he/she trades them back once you reach a point in the game where trading is unlocked. But then you'd still have the problem of controling them in battle without the proper badges.

Red · Jan 03, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

So sorry, I don't have much time to post right now, but this one really begged a reply with it's self-justifying "I normally don't flame buuuuuuuut..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Way Out

This is the most asinine point you have made in an asinine thread. I normally don't flame at all, and discourage it, but how the hell is anet profiting off of you spending less time playing the actual game.

Do us all a favor and make the central point of your argument in favor of this a bit better. I feel like you built a house on a sand foundation. Anet wouldn't profit off of this.... I agree, no one like to have to level their characters through the game, but that is the rules.

Even if your predictions were true, you understand that Guild Wars generates money only through new sales, since it's a free to play system. I don't claim to know anything about their advertising revenues and such, but as to the business model of the game itself... well, we know how that works, right?

So first of all, if people stop playing the games, that's less bandwidth costs for ANet, isn't it? XD

But going more along the lines of my reasoning... because Guild Wars generates its significant revenues from new sales--either of the games themselves or in-game store addons--then an increase in revenue necessitates an increase in new sales, yes? For most of us, we've bought the campaigns we're going to buy. Moreover, wouldn't you find it fair to say that the hardcore PvE players are the significant purchasing sector of new character slots?

I agree, I'm taking a somewhat narrowed view here, but I've always admitted that my objective here was focused on a specific group of people--people who like the game, or at least it's high-end content, but can't be motivated to drag their Xth character through the entire continent's mission and quest line.

These people are surely not purchasing more campaigns, nor do they have a need for more character slots. Working off the default 4+2+2=8 slots, if they got bored with the full game at their third character, why would they invest $9.99 USD in a ninth slot?

Wouldn't you think these people might me more encouraged to purchase slots, if they knew they'd actually use them? Then, the question becomes: what can be done to encourage such players to actually use those slots? My suggestion targets that question--admittedly, with only one possible solution. I really appreciate some of the other suggestions in here, with BioStem's being my favorite, but my suggestion and theirs all have a roughly similar aim, which is to decrease the time required to raise additional characters in order to increase versatility and enjoyment for the player.

It's a very simple argument. These people are not providing ANet with further revenue right now (and are indeed merely using bandwidth); but they might be encouraged to invest more in their account if they got more bang for their buck.

((Of course, the obvious counter to this argument is whether a change--whether mine or someone else's suggestion here--would decrease sales in another sector; but that's not really been fully addressed here. Anyone wanna go at it?))

freekedoutfish · Jan 03, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shura30

characters already share storage, guild and skills, why not the map?

basically a character have a clear map and say 'ok, LA is over there let's go'
why can't he pass this kind of information on another character on the same account?

i'm right into this, i'm in the process of levelling my second character and i'm finding stupid and boring to pay again for runs and tours wasting time i could spend playing interesting areas spamming lfg runner in each town when i've already done all of this few days before

Oh come on.. seriously!!!

The chest is a banking service! Its a big box that holds you belongings. Thats how you can share storage and it makes sense to do so logically.

A map is a map and a reprosentation of where the individual character has gone and discovered. Why can you and others not understand that?

You talk about wasting time getting to locations when you create a new character. Be realistic... it takes VERY little effort to find towns and outposts in GWs.. you DONT need this.

I do sympathise about having to create a new char and wanting to reach those areas straight away, but tough. Its role play and you can only go to places you have discovered. I really dont get why that doesnt seem to snk in.

Think of a map like armor. You cant share armor amoungst characters because its personalised to them and it can only fit them, and they earnt that armor. The same goes for the map. Your character earnt it so only they can go to those places.

If they added this idea, it would destroy the point of having a map. We might aswell use the HGL system of just having circles, squares and octogons to symbolise places and remove the map.

=DNC=Trucker · Jan 03, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

The more I think about it, the more I do believe that simply "mapping to anywhere" is a bad idea. There is probably another solution that I would be on board with that will alleviate some of the repetition of bringing 10 characters through, but simply 'unlocking' towns is probably not the right way to go about it?

freekedoutfish · Jan 03, 2008, 09:09 PM // 21:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by =DNC=Trucker

The more I think about it, the more I do believe that simply "mapping to anywhere" is a bad idea. There is probably another solution that I would be on board with that will alleviate some of the repetition of bringing 10 characters through, but simply 'unlocking' towns is probably not the right way to go about it?

If anything should be closed it is your forum account.

This idea that allowing mapping to anywhere will increase the life span and the revenue to Anet is nonsense! GWs doesnt need this to make it a better game or to sell more copies, and if anything it will destroy the role play aspect.

It would remove any point or drive to making a role playing character, because everything would be there for you to have the second you make a character.

It really is just an excuse being generated by lazey players who want to create characters and instantly get access to elite armor and weapons and elite zones.

One of the main aspects of an RPG is that you have to find an area before you get access to the content there. You have to do progressively more difficult quests and missions and earn the right to content in those zones.

Imagine the situation, you create a player at lvl1 and instantly (assuming you have the gold) you travel to an end zone, buy elite armor, elite weapons and start playing elite zones.

You then create another character and do exactly the same.

You then create another character and do exactly the same.

The again, and again and again!

This is mine and others point. It removes about 99% of the game, doesnt increase the life span and generally kills any point of playing. But you know fine well what would then happen....

....despite giving people instant access to areas and max gear and elite zones, someone will come along and STILL complain their getting fed up of having to repeat something else.

Next they will be asking that when we create a character it has all quests, missions and elite zones completed because a previous character has, and I wish i was joking when I say that, but someone will!!

You have to draw a line where ideas start to just get destructive and this idea is destructive the entire role playing aspect and people need to stop making excuses about "improving the life span" to back it up.

Imagine a new player bought the game, started playing and realised they could instantly go to end zones and buy elite armor and gear and higher skills. They would sit there think "WTF, i just spent £17 on a game I finished in 10 minutes... what was the point of playing?".

We need things to strive for, places to reach and max gear to aim at. If we get this stuff instantly upon creation, it removes that drive and kills the game.

Master Knightfall · Jan 03, 2008, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Don't you get tired of these igmo's who want to tell Anet how to make money and get increased sales and keep their clients, blah blah blah type of threads? No we don't need any changes to allow people to jump PAST ANY content other than is already allowed by Anet with runners and missions. So, no no access past those points as the BUG was fixed and it was a BUG and NOT a FEATURE. Therefore yet another stupid idiotic idea /unsigned.

Quote:

it's my second character that i need a boost for
i want it only to farm some areas or do particular things
why i have to run trough the full game, again?
it's a fault to want to HAVE FUN instead of repeating the same boring process every time?

Yeah Yeah we know PAL you found out a great farming build online or from some igmo and you want to try it out, but, you don't want to WORK for that ability to try it out like everyone else already has. lolololololol....sorry PAL you can level up your characters you want to FARM with just like everybody else, ain't gonna be no "cutting inline" just because you want in before others.

Shura30 · Jan 03, 2008, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Yeah Yeah we know PAL you found out a great farming build online or from some igmo and you want to try it out, but, you don't want to WORK for that ability to try it out like everyone else already has. lolololololol....sorry PAL you can level up your characters you want to FARM with just like everybody else, ain't gonna be no "cutting inline" just because you want in before others.

uhm,
you seem to not get the point here

gw isn't math or physics nor some kind of complex engineering so, creating, finding and understanding builds isn't that much of a problem

especially because if you're not a 15yo kiddo with a younger brain you can easily figure that skill that sinergyze each other in few (and already note but not so difficult to understand) possible 'plausible' combinations
so, once you have them all you can easily find out what suit best your skillbar

btw it's not that the reason of this argument (and i hope you will agree and understand those easy words)
the main point here is 'why wasting time doing the most boring job thousands of times?' especially when in other hundreds of ways GW lead you directly into fun?

to avoid another retarded quote/multiquote i want to repeat that i already have a full complete character
and i'm arguing about allowing OTHER characters than the first to have an easier and less boring life

at least a good idea is to place an npc that allow a second character to visit upon gold exchange a location previously unlocked on the same account

just to add other meat to the barbecue,
in a lot of posts here i can read:

'ooh why you have to run outposts?play the game'
'oooooh why you want an easy life?play the game'

except to the fact that everything make me think of an 'idontwanteveryonetohaveeasyaccestowhativesacrific edalotfor' complex

the whole concept of running have to be revisited
isn't fair (always following your ideas) that a character is runned through the map without actually playing the game

so running is a bad concept overall
but it still exists!
and i think that everyone can rely over a ranger or a dervish to run past the ice and get the finest armor at lev5

we (with this thread) are asking for:

a) npc support in 'running' (to avoid 'lfg runner' spamming and time waste NOT PLAYING)
b) kill or at least reduce the whole running service via account-shared maps

just to PLAY the game instead of wasting time doing the most boring part
especially for prophecies characters where access to late game require a lot of time

freekedoutfish · Jan 03, 2008, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shura30

to avoid another retarded quote/multiquote i want to repeat that i already have a full complete character
and i'm arguing about allowing OTHER characters than the first to have an easier and less boring life

As I said above...

Create a new character, go straight to end location, get elite armor and elite weapons and do elite zones.

Create another character and do exactly the same thing.

Create another character and do exactly the same thing.

Etc, etc, etc etc!

Yeah that will make life less boring!!!! << sarcasm!

Your bypassing 99% of the content and leaving about 1% and you think that will make the game less boring! There is nothing left to strive for or work for, so why play?

If anything this will kill the game.... no company in their right mind would release an RPG onto the market where you could take a new character directlty to the end and access end content.

It reduces the life span of the game by months!

You may have took one character through the game, but what if that character was an elemental and your new character is a warrior. You may have experience of the elemental class, but you have NO clue of the warrior. You then take your warrior directly to the elite areas at a low level and where is your experience with that class? where is your knowledge of their skills and weapons and abilities created before you got there?

There is a reason you have to build a character up before you access progressively harder areas. Your meant to gain experience and understanding of the class before you get there.

If you allow a new char direct access to end zones at low levels, without any character development, your risking letting complete noobs into areas where they shouldnt be.

There is a reason why an RPG is structed how they are. You do progessively harder content intended for the level and skill of your character. Its one thing for a low level character to maybe run to that location themselves, because atleast thaat might show some skill.

But to just teleport there without even walking or being run, is nonsense.

Kanyatta · Jan 03, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Definitely, put in the thingies so that you can skip missions and stuff. Every once in a while, I feel like making a PvE character so I can get it PvP-ready, but I hate drudging through Factions (fastest leveling, shortest noob island-area) and stuff. Then, since I don't PvE often, I have no money for armor or weapons, and am forced to VwK farm the Astralarium HM, I have beaten every campaign at least once from my PvE days, and it sure feels worthless, because I did it for an 8k Green that I can't sell. Except Proph, which had no reward.

/signed, unless I don't understand what you're getting at

Michiko Miko · Jan 04, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

...

Make it once you've completed the campaign, any level 20 character can access an outpost that the character who completed the campaign has been to. Your character can only go to x outposts in y hours, and has to pay z gold. Low levels can't abuse this, if you want to go to a specific outpost for whatever reason you can, for a price. It saves people hours of playing through a storyline that they've already played through.

If it was something like this /signed
I dont think you should be able to as low level, you should still work for the lvl 20 at least.

MithranArkanere · Jan 04, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

You can always make the Prestige Armor NPCs require certain missions made.

And, as I already said, Skipping missions and primary quests should always be prevented. And prophcies Missions and Primary quests should have their prerrequisites reworked.

Travel anywhere, explore anything, but can't finish the game unless you make the missions in the correct order.

quickmonty · Jan 04, 2008, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Travel anywhere, explore anything, but can't finish the game unless you make the missions in the correct order.

I'm not trying to single you out, but this sentence got me thinking about this suggestion in general.

Now, I haven't thought of other places where this would be a problem, but suppose that you could map to Bone Palace (for example) without having done Gate of Desolation. You can't get far in that area without being able to ride the wurms.

Also, there is currently only one way to access the desert regions of Tyria. You must complete the Sanctum Cay mission. I would like to see it stay that way.

chessyang · Jan 04, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

*******disclaimer********
1) I apologize for my English and grammar.
2) Sorry if I spell some towns or NPC wrong.
3) If you get offended by my remarks or think I’m targeting you. I’M NOT I’m just nuts and trying to prevent the obvious remarks.
4) I’m PvE and not PvP
5) You can read my previous post above on my rant to run each of my toons.
6) I’ll try update anything if needed
7)Throw me a freaking bone here for trying
*******disclaimer********

Ok Red here’s my 2 cents more to this idea.

Use something like the story books and dungeon books to gain access to areas. Here’s how it works.

1)you get the book from someone like the Historian or people who give out dungeon guides in Eotn
2)How this journey book would work and update

A) Each campaign has x towns so while you travel around, it will auto populates/complete/fill in the book.

1) Your chat would come up with some dialogue to check your book. “You have entered a new town. Your journey book will record it for you. Please read it.” Etc….you get the jist of it
2) For veterans. People who unlocked all town. Sorry but you have to bite the bullet and rezone each town to unlock it. So create some lag and map like crazy.

B) After the book is passed to another player (see below) you can zone to any of the unlocked towns.

1)The mechanics would work like story books that the historian gives out. Where you have “Enter Mission” you have “Enter Town”
2) You have the table of contents and just click from the list then on the town you want to map to, then with a confirmation you map and unlock the town.
3) It’s a once and done thing when you zone to that town. The confirmation box would read “You are about to visit The Great Northern wall. Once you have unlocked it you can not do it again”. etc.. you get the jist of it
4)Also the button would just disappear from the page. Which is a given

3)It becomes un-customized until you beat the campaign you are in.

a. first it’s customized for most of your journey until you beat the final boss and talk to some one to un-customized it.

i. Your book can only be UN-CUSTOMIZED once. Yep just like a green item. So make sure you unlock all towns first.

1. who would un-customized?

A) Prophecies. Well duh after you beat the Lich you go back to Droknaor’s Forage. So the person would be Glint.
B) Factions. I’m guessing add a dude or just use the Emperor Kisu. When you chat with him he could say “I’m glad you have seen many areas of my great country/place? Please let me sign your journey book” (you get the point)
C) Nightfall. I’m assuming just Kormi. Her chat could say “I have been with you all over this war and lived in this great land. Let the Gods allow passage to town… Ya you get the point
D) Eye of the North. High Priest Alkar right? As for his dialogue? Hum… .”Glad we didn’t blow up that area below Lion’s Arch”… I don’t know but you get it.
E) This would prevent you from un-customizing someone else Full book for a fee.

4) Now it’s un-customized

a. You can trade it.
i. So you want to be the first person to make 100k+++ over and over well you could over and over and I’ll give you that. But i feel sorry for you on how much time it would take to zone each town, each toon, and then beat the game.
ii. You can sell partial books. Where you have only the main towns unlocked or High end areas unlocked. Good luck selling a book that’s half filled or unlocked. But I’m sure some people would pay for that strange out of the way town for a few K
iii. In the trade window it would read. “Book has 7 of 19 towns unlocked”. To prevent people from selling 1 of 19 towns locked. There’s a sucker born each second. This should help them.
iv. Yep you have 10 of 12 toons that all beat the game. so your 10x richer by selling all their books. I’m sure you could use the extra gold anyways. I know I could.
b. Use it your self.

i. Yep get your next toon to that nice Vabbian armor. Now good luck unlocking all the towns in between
ii. Example. I have an assassin/ Ritualist and want to farm some of the jade sea. So with it I can unlock the jade sea areas. BUT not do the missions until I have lock them via the quest/story
iii. Unlock all your next towns for the next toons and enjoy doing the missions and story faster. How much faster? I don’t know 100x faster

5) You can’t do mission until you do the quest to unlock it.

a. Kind of given from Nigthfall.
b. To unlock the missions in the Crystal Desert you must do the Sanctum Cay mission.
c. There are places like this. Just my input for quickmonty & MithranArkanere. About Sanctum cay to The Amnoon Oasis

So basically the idea is just like the story books with it moded for of mapping.

A)Extras

a. If you unlocked a full book you get 100k. it’s the same ideal just like trading in your Hero/Dungeon book. I’m exaggerating on the reward amount above.
b. 9 wonders of Tyria. Guess where I got that idea from? But this would be great for people to enjoy some areas.
c. Stick the Great Temple of Balthazar for free and unlimited entry. The page would read of great PVP

.
There I said it!!! More to come......

And

Thanks to you guys on guru and Anet for a great game.

***Edit**
anyone care to post this on GWonline? i might later. if you do just give credit where it's due.

Cherng Butter · Jan 04, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

/signed big time.

And on the issue of Book of Secrets/Amulets/Droknar's Keys, just make it so you can't get them until you complete all missions...(or the ones required for foreigners).

Holly Herro · Jan 04, 2008, 06:09 AM // 06:09

/signed for Chessyang

Totally agree.

Everyone, +1 for Chessy!

=DNC=Trucker · Jan 04, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

AHHH chessyang sweet idea, but would take a lot of work from ANET

I don't particularly like the idea of "trading" and "un-customizing" books to sell to other people who haven't done it. So, would this mean that if you beat the game and advance through everything with 1 character, the stories and tales are there to be read be 1, and only 1 other char? Thats seems like a good compromise, as it wouldn't allow instant access across your whole account, but more like a historian book like the BMP has

freekedoutfish · Jan 04, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

I hate to burst everyones bubble, but this idea just wont happen.

1) its not needed because most areas can be reached within hours.
2) Anet wont make such a huge change to the game, because they dont intend to touch on previous campaigns and this idea would impact all 4 games.
3) It has too many negative impacts on the game.

It just wont happen.

Arkantos · Jan 04, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

I hate to burst everyones bubble, but this idea just wont happen.

1) its not needed because most areas can be reached within hours.
2) Anet wont make such a huge change to the game, because they dont intend to touch on previous campaigns and this idea would impact all 4 games.
3) It has too many negative impacts on the game.

It just wont happen.

Most likely none of the suggestions in Sardelac will be implemented into the game. Does that mean that we cannot have a discussion? No.

freekedoutfish · Jan 04, 2008, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Most likely none of the suggestions in Sardelac will be implemented into the game. Does that mean that we cannot have a discussion? No.

Your absolutely right, but when your talking about wanting an idea that will fundimentally bypass 95% of the role play aspect and remove any real pve to the game or any drive to the game, then you need to have a reality check.

All these people who are signing this idea worry me. It not so bad an idea if we're talking about allowing this for only lvl20s, because those people will atleast have some experience of the character. But to allow this for low level players is nonsense because the player may have NO experience of that class and have NO right to access high end areas before their read to.

But even for level 20s....

In prophercies you reach lvl20 about 3/4 the way through the game, so whats the point? The last 1/4 is very easily reached or run too!

In factions you reach lvl20 by about 1/4 the way through the game and you are then allowing people to bypass 75% of the game which will kill factions. But factions uses gates and if they impliment this idea, they need to remove the gates too... but that would mess the game up.

In nightfall its more like prophercies, but you would be bypassing a large % of the game even at lvl20 and you also arent meant to progess unless you have done certan missions or quests because its a structured storyline.

I really dont get how people think this ill prolong any game life? It wont! It will remove life from the game because players would rush lvl20 chars just to reach end areas and bypass lots of content.

They then soon get bored of that same content they jumped to and leave!

You cant fix the fact that people get bored with a game. It doesnt matter whether you take longer to reach that content or you get it instantly.. you will still get bored. Just go play another game, stop playing or accept this is an RPG which demands repetition by its very nature and stop complaining.

If you choose to play an RPG which requires you play the same content everytime you make a new character, you cant complain. Im leaving this now because im repeating myslf.